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	<title>Comments on: But will I respect you in the morning?</title>
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	<link>http://www.jordoncooper.com/2009/01/24/but-will-i-respect-you-in-the-morning/</link>
	<description>A weblog about urbanism, technology, &#38; culture.</description>
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		<title>By: K.</title>
		<link>http://www.jordoncooper.com/2009/01/24/but-will-i-respect-you-in-the-morning/comment-page-1/#comment-6485</link>
		<dc:creator>K.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jan 2009 21:13:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jordoncooper.com/2009/01/24/but-will-i-respect-you-in-the-morning/#comment-6485</guid>
		<description>Churches always told me they couldn&#039;t afford to fund things like paying artists a fair price for their work (ripped off photography, illustration, design, are a few things I saw), women a fair price for their contribution (same job, less pay), or for things like software licences or resources/time/travel they wanted people to give them for free. One guy actually told me that if I was serious about &quot;serving the Lord&quot;, I&#039;d fly across the country at my expense and teach them about cultural issues.

At some point, what is defended as &quot;just hearsay&quot; and &quot;anecdotal evidence&quot; are the actual representations of cultural behaviour. What do you do when year after year you see people do thing s like:

 - buy a multi-thousand dollar industrial dishwasher for a dying congregation that had church dinners (no outsiders) once or twice a year.
- spend thousands of dollars in promotional material for a building campaign
- have funds allocated for a church plant anniversary video shown once
- spend thousands to send a dozen church people to the meccas of Willow Creek etc. but a claim of no money for involvement in smaller, local training
- put money into new projectors/computers/youth trips to Disneyland/sound equipment but no money into poverty relief or local social justice initiatives.
- or as one church  meeting I witnessed, vote to cut overseas  funding  to build a bigger church sign with lighting &quot;to get more people in&quot; (didn&#039;t work btw)
- also vote to cut young adult group funding as &quot;they are not a stable and reliable revenue stream&quot;

And on. Sigh. And on.

I should also say I&#039;m fond of gatherings of all kinds but they can be done on the cheap. We tried to get every one who could afford it to sponsor a student or someone w/ lower income at our &quot;hosted in a molding old school&quot; national forums. Not so many took us up on that initiative. Same with the lack of exotic location. &quot;What do you mean there&#039;s no palm trees?!&quot; 

And you&#039;re right. Eventually it just becomes too disturbing to contribute life energy to this behavior. So away we all go...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Churches always told me they couldn&#8217;t afford to fund things like paying artists a fair price for their work (ripped off photography, illustration, design, are a few things I saw), women a fair price for their contribution (same job, less pay), or for things like software licences or resources/time/travel they wanted people to give them for free. One guy actually told me that if I was serious about &#8220;serving the Lord&#8221;, I&#8217;d fly across the country at my expense and teach them about cultural issues.</p>
<p>At some point, what is defended as &#8220;just hearsay&#8221; and &#8220;anecdotal evidence&#8221; are the actual representations of cultural behaviour. What do you do when year after year you see people do thing s like:</p>
<p> &#8211; buy a multi-thousand dollar industrial dishwasher for a dying congregation that had church dinners (no outsiders) once or twice a year.<br />
- spend thousands of dollars in promotional material for a building campaign<br />
- have funds allocated for a church plant anniversary video shown once<br />
- spend thousands to send a dozen church people to the meccas of Willow Creek etc. but a claim of no money for involvement in smaller, local training<br />
- put money into new projectors/computers/youth trips to Disneyland/sound equipment but no money into poverty relief or local social justice initiatives.<br />
- or as one church  meeting I witnessed, vote to cut overseas  funding  to build a bigger church sign with lighting &#8220;to get more people in&#8221; (didn&#8217;t work btw)<br />
- also vote to cut young adult group funding as &#8220;they are not a stable and reliable revenue stream&#8221;</p>
<p>And on. Sigh. And on.</p>
<p>I should also say I&#8217;m fond of gatherings of all kinds but they can be done on the cheap. We tried to get every one who could afford it to sponsor a student or someone w/ lower income at our &#8220;hosted in a molding old school&#8221; national forums. Not so many took us up on that initiative. Same with the lack of exotic location. &#8220;What do you mean there&#8217;s no palm trees?!&#8221; </p>
<p>And you&#8217;re right. Eventually it just becomes too disturbing to contribute life energy to this behavior. So away we all go&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: robert</title>
		<link>http://www.jordoncooper.com/2009/01/24/but-will-i-respect-you-in-the-morning/comment-page-1/#comment-6480</link>
		<dc:creator>robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jan 2009 03:58:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jordoncooper.com/2009/01/24/but-will-i-respect-you-in-the-morning/#comment-6480</guid>
		<description>i sadly admit that for kicks and giggles once in my life i used to listen to jimmy swaggert. his response to something he greatly agreed with was always &quot;amen ... and again i say amen.&quot; i think it, or something like it, fits here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i sadly admit that for kicks and giggles once in my life i used to listen to jimmy swaggert. his response to something he greatly agreed with was always &#8220;amen &#8230; and again i say amen.&#8221; i think it, or something like it, fits here.</p>
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